Baptism for the Dead

Broad overview:

The 3 Mormons share their perspective:

Saints Unscripted (used to be 3 Mormons):

1 Corinthians 15:29:

“Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?”

The baptismal font at St Bartholomew’s Church, Liège was made between 1107 and 1118 now in St. Bartholomew’s Church in Liege, Belgium.   The font sat on twelve oxen (two are now missing).

Rick Bennett at Gospel Tangents does a helpful interiew:

The Ensign, “Salvation for the Dead“.  February 1995.

John Tvedtnes:  “Baptism for the Dead

Jeff Lindsay shares many articles on this topic here.

Baptism for the Dead in Ancient Times by Hugh Nibley.

Mormon scholar, John A. Tvedtnes says: “Baptism for the dead was performed by the dominant church until forbidden by the sixth canon of the Council of Carthage (397).   Some of the smaller sects, however, continued the practice.”

Code of Canons of the African Church as canon 18, reads: “It also seemed good that the Eucharist should not be given to the bodies of the dead. For it is written: ‘Take, Eat’, but the bodies of the dead can neither ‘take’ nor ‘eat’. Nor let the ignorance of the presbyters baptize those who are dead.”

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Tertullian attributes the practice of 1 Corinthians “baptised for the dead” to the Marcionites.  

Epiphanius of Salamis (between 310–320 – 403) reported that he had heard it said that, among followers of Cerinthus, if one of them died before baptism, another was baptized in that person’s name:

For their school reached its height in this country, I mean Asia, and in Galatia as well. And in these countries I also heard of a tradition which said that when some of their people died too soon, without baptism, others would be baptized for them in their names, so that they would not be punished for rising unbaptized at the resurrection and become the subjects of the authority that made the world.

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John Chrysostom (c. 347–407) mockingly attributes to the Marcionites of the late 4th century a similar practice: if one of their followers who was being prepared for baptism died before receiving baptism, the dead person’s corpse was addressed with the question whether he wished to be baptized, whereupon another answered affirmatively and was baptized for the dead person.

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An interesting example of the views of a prominent non-LDS scholar is related by R.L. Anderson in Understanding Paul, Deseret Book, SLC, Utah, 1983, p. 413. It’s a transcript of a conversation with Dr. Edgar J. Goodspeed, an authority on the New Testament and early Christian documents:

Interview between Dr. Edgar J. Goodspeed and Paul R. Cheesman, held in Dr. Goodspeed’s office on the campus to the University of California at Los Angeles during the summer of 1945.Cheesman: Is the scripture found in 1 Corinthians 15:29 translated properly as found in the King James Translation?
Goodspeed: Basically, yes.
Cheesman: Do you believe that baptism for the dead was practiced in Paul’s time?
Goodspeed: Definitely, yes.
Cheesman: Does the church to which you belong practice it today?
Goodspeed: No.
Cheesman: Do you think it should be practiced today?
Goodspeed: This is the reason why we do not practice it today. We do not know enough about it. If we did, we would practice it.
Cheesman: May I quote you as a result of this interview?
Goodspeed: Yes.

Other religions pray for the dead, and some even offer food to the dead.  We  baptize proxies for the dead.

Unique perspective of a non-Mormon who had been Dean at Harvard Divinity School:

Seer stones, Reformed Egyptian, and Translation

Stephen Jones shares insights:

Another introductory video on seer stones:

Jeff at LDS Q&A shares Joseph’s journey in using his stone to help find objects to gaining inspiration for scripture.  

 

Wonderful contributions by John Welch.  In the first video below, Jack presents a timeline of the Book of Mormon translation.  “Hours Never to be Forgotten:  Timing the Book of Mormon Translation.”

In September of 2018, Jack discusses the beginning of the translation:

The Interpreter reports on Book of Mormon grammar, finding examples that reflect more from the 16th Century than from Joseph’s day.

Barlow on Book of Mormon Language: An Examination of Some Strained Grammar

The Church has long been transparent about the seer stones.  Read this article in the Friend in 1974:

“To help him with the translation, Joseph found with the gold plates “a curious instrument which the ancients called Urim and Thummim, which consisted of two transparent stones set in a rim of a bow fastened to a breastplate.”

Joseph also used an egg-shaped, brown rock for translating called a seer stone…”

The Ensign in 1977 provided many details of the translation process, including an account of the rock in the hat.

Several podcasts about Joseph’s seer stones:

The Salt Lake Tribune interviewed Richard Bushman on the topic of seer stones:

More from Bushman on seer stones:

Discussion about reformed Egyptian:

Many languages are reformed from another language. That is, languages evolve and are constantly impacted by neighboring languages.  They were reformed.  Reformed Egyptian isn’t a title, but a description.  

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Consider the process through which English evolved:

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Hebrew — the language spoken by Lehi — likewise went through a long evolution:

Proto-Semitic gave rise to Arabic, Aramaic (likely what Jesus spoke), Phoenician, Hebrew, Ethiopian, and other languages.

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The Phoenician alphabet is derived from Egyptian hieroglyphs. It became one of the most widely used writing systems, spread by Phoenician merchants across the Mediterranean world, where it evolved and was assimilated by many other cultures.

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Egyptian impacted Phoenician, which in turn influenced Greek, Roman, and Hebrew (and others).

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Egyptian itself also developed from another language family:

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Three types of Egyptian writing:

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Demotic was a cursive form modified from the already-established cursive Heiratic.

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Heiratic and Demotic are variations of the original language script (Egyptian hieroglyphs).  Heiratic was a cursive script used on papyri.  Demotic was an even more cursive, more compact variety.  

But — as with virtually all langages and writing scripts — one was developed or reformed or altered from the other.  That is, Demotic was modified from the earlier version, Heiratic.

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Egyptian has been modified in other ways in other places?  Yes, Egyptian was reformed and became Coptic.  Coptic is a modified Greek alphabet with modified Egyptian characters.  Further, Beowulf English isn’t today’s English.

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Small section of Beowulf (and Old English) below:

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Further, Japanese is reformed Chinese.  Although, we don’t typically categorize Japanese this way, but it’s true. Linguists and scholars know this.  

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Scholars may not use the exact words “reformed” to describe Japanese.  That’s fine.  We could say “evolved” or “modified” or “reformed” Chinese.  Japanese descended from Chinese, however 1 wants to explain it.

Evidence exists of compact reformed Egyptian writing of Hebrew represented by Egyptian characters.  In other words, texts exist that are composed of Semitic languages written in Egyptian characters.  Consider reading this article:  Jewish and Other Semitic Texts Written in Egyptian Characters.

From the link above:  “One such text is Papyrus Amherst 63, a document written in Egyptian demotic and dating to the second century B.C.  The document had, like the Dead Sea Scrolls, been preserved in an earthen jar and was discovered in Thebes, Egypt, during the second half of the nineteenth century.

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For years, Egyptologists struggled with the text but could make no sense of
it. The letters were clear (Demotic script), but they did not form intelligible words.  In 1944, Raymond Bowman of the University of Chicago realized that, while the script is Egyptian, the underlying language is Aramaic….

At both Arad and Kadesh-Barnea, there were, in addition to the “combination texts” discussed, other ostraca written entirely in either Hebrew or Egyptian hieratic.

The implication is clear: Scribes or students contemporary or nearly contemporary with Lehi were being trained in both Hebrew and Egyptian writing systems. The use of Egyptian script by Lehi’s descendants now
becomes not only plausible, but perfectly reasonable in the light of archaeological discoveries made more than a century after Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon.

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Both hieratic and demotic were in use in Lehi’s time and can properly be termed “reformed Egyptian.”  From the account in Mormon 9:32, it seems likely that the Nephites further reformed the characters.

Lehi would have spoken Hebrew.  In Moroni 9:34 we learn Egyptian was used by the Nephites to compact language.

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Charles Anthon (language scholar) first explained that Martin’s copied characters were an example of “shorthand” Egyptian.  Harris was convinced Joseph had a real (not fabricated) record.

Several podcasts providing evidence for reformed Egyptian:

The fun Backyard Professor:

Brian Stubbs on the Egyptian and Hebrew cognates found in Uto-Aztecan: language family spanning from Mexico to Utah:

John Hall’s 2007 FAIR speech:  “The Problem with Tampering with the Word of God:  As far as it is translated correctly.”

Another video on the translation:

Three Degrees of Glory: D&C 76

Elder Oaks gives a talk about the three degrees of glory here.

 

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Read additional historical background on the revelation here.

Accordingly, on the 16th of February, 1832, while translating St. John’s Gospel, myself and Elder Rigdon saw the following vision: [D&C 76].” (History of the Church, 1:245.)

Philo Dibble was an eyewitness to the reception of this revelation. He wrote that “the vision which is recorded in the Book of Doctrine and Covenants was given at the house of ‘Father Johnson,’ in Hiram, Ohio, and during the time that Joseph and Sidney were in the spirit and saw the heavens open, there were other men in the room, perhaps twelve, among whom I was one during a part of the time—probably two-thirds of the time,—I saw the glory and felt the power, but did not see the vision.

John Johnson home

The John Johnson home in Hiram, Ohio, where Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon received section 76

 

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While it is often called “the vision,” Doctrine and Covenants 76 is a series of visions combined into one grand revelation: a vision of the glory of the Son (vv. 20–24); a vision of the fall of Satan and the sufferings of those who follow him, who are sons of perdition (vv. 25–49); a vision of those who inherit the celestial glory and come forth in the resurrection of the just (vv. 50–70); a vision of those who inherit the terrestrial glory (vv. 71–80); and a vision of those who inherit the telestial glory (vv. 81–89). A comparison of the three degrees of glory is also given.

 

This podcast — starting at the 33:40 mark — discusses how D & C 76 (known as “The Vision” was received:

Episode 54: The JST in the D&C – Kenneth Alford

The Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible (JST)

Great place to get started:

Episode 54: The JST in the D&C – Kenneth Alford

LDS Perspectives Podcast #55 also relates to the JST:

Episode 55: Joseph Smith’s Use of Adam Clarke’s Commentary in the JST – Thomas A. Wayment

Rob Jensen discusses the JST in 2015:

A few months ago, Dr. Thomas Wayment made headlines in the Mormon community when he came out with news that the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible relied heavily on Adam Clarke’s Bible Commentary.

What implications does that have for Latter-day Saints of faith?

A House of Learning Lecture by Kent Jackson at BYU:

Jeffrey Bradshaw’s 2008 FAIR presentation:  “The Message of the Joseph Smith Translation: A Walk in the Garden”

Apologetics: Defense of the LDS Church

Dr. David Paulsen’s was a distinguished BYU scholar who defended the Church through his career.  He was a world-class philosopher who articulated the nature of the Godhead.

Quite a story below by Roger Keller, a former Presbyterian minister:

Dan Peterson:

Scott Peterson, president of FAIR:

Michael Ash, longtime apologist and author:

Growing up in the UK, Michael read many Mormon-related books in his public library — all but two of which — were opposed to the LDS faith.

Michael read about the multiple accounts of Joseph’s vision, among other topics, in the 1960s.  He shares his personal journey below:

Mormon and Gay

Stop by:  https://mormonandgay.lds.org

 

A talk today by Elder Oaks.  He affirmed the Church’s position on the family.

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2017/10/media/session_1_talk_6/5594186028001?lang=eng

 

The 3 Mormons tackle a “touchy” issue with grace and gusto!

This gay man says he can be both gay and a believing member.

Lots of LGBT-related LDS videos here. 

Ty Mansfield shares one perspective:  “Mormons Can Be Gay, They Just Can’t Do Gay? ”

Legal Trials of Joseph Smith

A short version of the Josiah Stowell account starts around the 8:15 mark.  A relative of Stowell filed a suit and accused Joseph of “glass-looking” and “being a disorderly person.”

Josiah Stowell even testified on Joseph’s account, and the judge did not find him guilty of anything.  The suit was brought by Josiah’s nephew.

From the Mormon Newsroom:

Around the 12:00 mark, Jeff points out the details of Joseph’s first trial, involving Josiah Stowell’s nephew.

An interesting summary slide is found at the 15:55 mark.

Legal Trails of Joseph Smith, by Joseph Bentley.

Joseph was involved in over 175 legal proceedings.  50 cases were brought against him as criminal charges.  Joseph was patient in his afflictions.

The Church’s Role, Succession, and Apostates

The Denver Snuffer is the most recent example of one claiming to be newly enlightened by God.   An additional claim by Snuffer and similar apostates is the Church has lost its way.

These apostates typically claim a direct tie to Joseph.  However, Joseph consistently taught that keys were shared by the leading quorums of the Church and no special deliveries of keys were to be expected outside the order of the Kingdom.

Cassandra Hedelius shares her research below:

Brett McDonald discusses schism activity today and in the times of Joseph Smith:

 

Some critics claim Brigham Young didn’t claim to be Joseph’s successor after Joseph’s death. Not true.

Brigham claimed to be a prophet and claimed divine inspiration.  But Brigham more than once clarified that he was different from Joseph and Daniel.

Robert Boylan shares these related details here. 

 

An example of schism-related apostasy strikes very close to home for me.  My mother’s maiden name is LeBaron.  A LeBaron relative claimed he was to start a polygamist colony in Mexico, and  did so in 1924.

Ervil LeBaron was the founding polygamist’s son.    After several decades of polygamist living, a power struggle engulfed this sect.   After killing many, Ervil killed himself in a Draper, UT prison.

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Summary from Google:  “Ervil Morrell LeBaron was the leader of a polygamous Mormon fundamentalist group who ordered the killings of many of his opponents, using the religious doctrine of blood atonement to justify the murders.”

Read one comprehensive account here in Murderpedia.

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My mom used to tell us when we were younger that “all LeBarons would be known for good and Ervil.”  Ervil became a household name during the 1970s and early 80s:  when he ordered his many (~ 25) murders.

Life is much simpler and better if one remembers the role of the restoration and living prophets.  It’s best to ignore claimants — usually intelligent, charismatic, narcissistic, but very much misled — shouting about special keys and general apostasy of the LDS Church.

 

Below are accounts of individuals who have left the Church.  None are as extreme as the Denver Snuffer, John Dehlin, or others.  Yet, each is an example of individual apostasy.

Articles of Faith Podcast: Jeffrey Thayne.  Jeffrey blogs under the name LDS philosopher.

 

Thoughts by Michael Ash:

3 prominent Mormons who left and returned:

A young man’s personal journey out of and back into the LDS Church:

 

Tony, the owner of the Blog Reconverted.Org is interviewed.  Tony tells his story of his battle with pornography, his excommunication from the Church and divorce from his wife.

He walks us through his Leaving the Church and his return through re-baptism. It is a great story of one of God’s Prodigal children.

For young Latter-day Saints:

Chiasmus in the Book of Mormon

3 Mormons.  Fun way to start this sometimes hard-to-understand topic:

From Book of Mormon Central:  Lots of short and concise videos on the topic.

John Welch, who first identified chiasms in the Book of Mormon, tells the story:

45 years after discovering chiasmus in the Book of Mormon:

Does chiasmus appear in the Book of Mormon by chance?  Short answer: no.  Long answer: review statistics in these videos.

Steven Ehat has studied chiasmus since the 1970s:

Noel Reynolds:

Masons, Mormons, and the Ancient Temple

Like most topics, to best understand the relationship between the Mormons and the Masons one needs lots of context.  After watching some (or all) of the videos below you’ll better appreciate the impact of Masonry on our faith.

Jeff Roundy, at Latter-day Saints Q & A YouTube Channel, produced three insightful videos on this topic below:

Rick Bennett interviewed Mason expert Cheryl Bruno, an active, believing member:

Rick interviewed this historian on the connection to Oliver Cowdery:

Dr. Jeffrey Bradshaw shares his insights on the relationship between Masons and Latter-day Saints:

Jeffrey M. Bradshaw on “What Did Joseph Smith Know about Temple Ordinances by 1836?”

Great Interpreter article:  Freemasonry and the Origins of Modern Temple Ordinances.  

Scott Gordon explains what in the temple rites comes from Masonry and what does not:

LDS Truth Claims on the temple ordinances and Masonry:

Another great source:  “Learning from the Ancient Tabernacles.

ANCIENT TEMPLE:

(Non-Mormon) Margaret Barker speaks on “Restoring Solomon’s Temple” at the conference “Mormonism and the Temple: Exploring an Ancient Religious Tradition,” on October 29, 2012, at Utah State University in Logan, Utah.

David Larsen in 2011.   What the Psalms can tell us about the 1st Temple:

The Order of the House of God:  Ancient Practices and Modern Experiences – David Larsen 2015:

Videos about relationships between temples, Mason, and early Christians: